Skip to main content

harry potter - Are Fidelius charms stackable?


When the Order of the Phoenix fears that Snape will reveal Grimauld Place to the Death Eaters, they have to evacuate, leaving rather shaky defences behind.


Why could they not have cast another Fidelius charm, which would protect them?


Surely if you cast another charm, it would hide it from people that already know, since you can hide a house from people that already know (otherwise it'd be useless - surely Voldemort/a Death Eater would have known where James Potter's house was before the Fidelius Charm was set up).



Answer




I think that, on the whole, it wouldn't be possible to stack multiple Fidelius Charms onto a single location (although it doesn't happen in canon so we don't know for sure). Firstly, that idea doesn't seem to be compatible with what the books tell us happens to Fidelius Charms once they are broken. And, secondly, the Charm is so complicated that I'm not sure it would be possible.



The mechanics of broken Fidelius Charms are important here. It seems that a Fidelius Charm ceases to exist when the people which it's protecting die.



He could see it; the Fidelius Charm must have died with James and Lily.
(Deathly Hallows, Chapter 17, Bathilda's Secret).



The Fidelius Charm continues to exist if the Secret Keeper dies - but everyone they've told also becomes a Secret Keeper.



Mr Weasley had explained that after the death of Dumbledore, their Secret Keeper, each of the people to whom Dumbledore had confided Grimmauld Place's location had become a Secret Keeper in turn.
"And as there are around twenty of us, that greatly dilutes the power of the Fidelius Charm. Twenty times as many opportunities for the Death Eaters to get the secret out of somebody. We can't expect it to hold much longer."
(Deathly Hallows, Chapter 6, The Ghoul in Pyjamas).




And, of course, the Fidelius Charm can partially break if the Secret Keeper reveals the secret to another person. This has to be done voluntarily, not under duress, and does not mean that that new person then becomes a Secret Keeper themselves (as per Pottermore).


Note that in the second and third instances the Fidelius Charm remains active and operational. It is just weakened by the secret being revealed to more and more people when obviously it is designed not to be revealed at all (or only to a small group of trusted people). Only once the people being protected die is the Fidelius Charm said to "die" itself. It could also be that Fidelius Charms elapse after a designated period but this is speculation and we don't know this.


All this means that, when someone who you wish didn't know your protected location finds out the secret, casting another Fidelius Charm is unlikely to keep them out. Why? Because the first Fidelius Charm is still operational. It has been weakened by the secret being shared but not terminated. Which means that the layering of Fidelius Charms is going to cause a lot of unknown and possibly chaotic side-effects.


Think about the practicalities involved. It's possible that the second Fidelius Charm would be rendered ineffective by the first, meaning that nothing would change and the person you wanted to keep out would still have access. It's possible that the confusion around the location would cause some kind of magical paradox, rendering the location visible at some times but not at others. It's even possible that the Charm may only show the location to people who know one secret but not the other - locking you out of your own house but granting access to the person you wanted to keep out! The consequences would be unforeseeable, which is hardly where you want to be with security. A far safer way forwards would be to evacuate and cast a fresh Fidelius Charm on a new location.


Anyway, multiple Fidelius Charms may not be possible.


Flitwick stresses the complexity of the magic involved when he describes the Charm.



"How does that work?" said Madame Rosmerta, breathless with interest. Professor Flitwick cleared his throat.
"An immensely complex spell," he said squeakily, involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul."

(Prisoner of Azkaban, Chapter 10, The Marauder's Map).



Since casting one Fidelius Charm is an "immensely complex" feat you can imagine how complicated it might be to cast multiple Fidelius Charms on the same place. It may even be beyond the skills of someone of Dumbledore's calibre to pull off. As with other complex spells, like the Horcrux-creating spell, it seems that duplication multiplies complexity. This is tricky, tricky magic. Casting one Fidelius Charm would be beyond most. Casting multiple Charms on the same location may be impossible.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...