Skip to main content

harry potter - Who was more likely to die, a Death Eater or Order of the Phoenix member?


My thesis is that Peter Pettigrew chose the Death Eaters since it was safer - specifically, you had a lot more chances of not getting killed compared to staying on James Potter's side.



Based on canon, is that supported?


Who died more, Death Eaters or Order of the Phoenix?


I'm willing to accept answers from various angles:




  • Compare by absolute # of death, or by percentage of fighters




  • You may include DEs killed by Voldemort himself (it's a risk)





  • Ideally, the question scope is the First Voldemort war (e.g. before James/Lily's death), which is most relevant to Wormtail's choice. But I'm fine if you ALSO include Second wizarding war (Harry Potter years) as well.




I would prefer to only include DE and OotP combatants - the assumption here (from the original discussion that raised the question) is that Wormtail would have chosen to either be OotP or DE as the two strongest factions, not be a wallflower.



Answer



(New! list of deaths, from HP wiki. Analysis at the end.)


I'm going to say that it was generally safer to be a Death Eater because the good guys will at least try to capture them, while the Death Eaters won't hesitate to kill. Consider the three groups fighting:


First, the Order of the Phoenix. They were probably the most powerful of the groups, but also the most principled. I'm pretty certain they didn't kill the death eaters they fought unless absolutely necessary.


Second, the Aurors (not all of whom were OotP, I'm quite certain). At the beginning of the war, they weren't allowed to use the unforgiveable curses, and they were supposed to capture rather than kill. Eventually they were given the authority to kill, but presumably they still captured when it was practical to.



And thirdly, the Death Eaters. They were, as I'm sure we all know, ruthless. They had no compunction about killing, and I would venture that at least those fairly high up the ranks were at least as powerful as the Aurors, and probably even as powerful as some in the Order. That makes them quite dangerous. Voldemort himself, while fond of torturing his followers, only actually killed them on rare occasions (e.g. hearing about Hufflepuff's cup, he didn't want anyone else to know about it, and the news put him in a murderous range, so he just killed anyone in the room he could).


So from a practical standpoint, the weaker Death Eaters were most likely to be captured, not killed, by either the Order or the Aurors, and the stronger ones were less likely to be either captured or killed because of their skill (though probably more likely killed than captured).


The Aurors and Order, however, would almost certainly be killed if they were defeated.


So, for a quick calculation, let's say the Order primarily fought the stronger DEs and had a 2/3 probability of beating them, of which 2/3 of the time they'd capture them alive. That would result in 1/3 (3/9) of the time, the Order member would die, 2/9 the DE would die, and 4/9 the DE would be captured. That means that even though the Order member has a better chance of winning, they have a higher probability of dieing. Let's say the probabilities are similar for the Aurors vs. weaker DEs, and say 9/10 of the time a stronger opponent (OotP/Strong DE) would beat a weaker one (Auror/weak DE), with the OotP always capturing and the DEs always killing. The exact final ratio would depend on how often the strong wizards faced strong vs weak DEs, and vice-versa, but in all cases, it seems the Good Guys are more likely to die.


So, unless you count life in Azkaban, it seems the Death Eater's side would probably be safer.


Now for some absolute numbers described in the book:


                 OotP   DE      Other   Muggles  
First War | 10 | 3-4 | 1 | 12
Second War | 8-11 | 5+-8+ | 15 | 2
---------------+------+-------+-------+--------

Total (approx) | 20 | 15 | 16 | 14

So this shows a higher absolute number dead for the Order, and considering that there were slightly more Death Eaters than OotP (from another post I can't find at the moment), their rate of death is certainly higher. However, there is a fairly strong reporting bias (especially in the first war), so it probably wasn't quite as lopsided as it seems. Interesting to note, however, that not fighting in the war was also fairly dangerous. (And my 1/3 vs 2/9 = 3:2 estimate isn't terribly far off for the second war).


The actual list. Asterisks (*) indicate the ones I'm not quite sure should be counted in that particular category or at all.



OotP: 18 - 21
- (First war) - 10
James Potter (V)
Lily Potter (V)
Marlene McKinnon

Edgar Bones
Gideon Prewett
Fabian Prewett
Benjy Fenwick
Dorcas Meadowes
Mr. Bones
Mrs. Bones
- (Second war) - 8-11
Sirius Black
Amelia Bones

Emmeline Vance
Albus Dumbledore*
Mad-Eye Moody
Ted Tonks*
Dobby*
Fred Weasley
Severus Snape
Remus Lupin
Nymphadora Tonks


Death Eaters: 8+ - 12+
- (First war) - 3-4
Rosier (Moody)
Wilkes (Aurors)
Mulcibr Sr.
Regulus Black*
- (Second war) - 5+-8+
Quirrell* (Harry - sort of)
Barty Crouch Jr* (Dementors)
Igor Karkarov

Gibbon
Peter Pettigrew
Several (V's fit of rage after hearing about the cup)
Vincent Crabbe*
Bellatrix
Voldemort

Misc. wizards: 16
- (First war) - 1
[Dean Thomas's Father]

- (Second war) - 15
Bertha Jorkins (V)
Barty Crouch Sr (BC Jr)
Cedric (Peter Pettigrew)
Broderick Bode
Florian Fortescue
Mrs. Abbott
Montgomery
Octavius Pepper
Charity Burbage

Rufus Scrimgeour
Gregorovitch
Bathilda Bagshot
Gellert Grindelwald
Dirk Cresswell
Colin Creevey

Muggles: 14
- (First war) - 12
12 (Peter Pettigrew)

- (Second war) 2
Frank Bryce (V)
German Woman (V)

Pre-War: 3
Muggle Tramp (Locket horcrux)
Hepzibah Smith
Albanian Peasant (Diadem horcrux)

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...

What is the etymology of Doctor Who?

I recently decided to watch Doctor Who, and started viewing the 2005 version. I have the first two episodes from the first season, and I can't help but wonder what is the etymology of the name "Doctor Who"? And why does the protagonist call himself "the Doctor" (or is it "the doctor")? Answer In the very first episode of Doctor Who (way back in 1963), the Doctor has a granddaughter going by the name "Susan Foreman", and the junkyard where the TARDIS is has the sign "I.M. Foreman". Barbara, who becomes one of the Doctor's companions, calls him "Doctor Foreman" (probably assuming that is his name given his relationship to Susan), and Ian (another early companion) does the same in the second episode, to which the Doctor says: Eh? Doctor who? What's he talking about? "Foreman" is most likely selected as a convenient surname for Susan to use because it happened to be on display near where the TARDIS landed....

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...