Skip to main content

tolkiens legendarium - Did Sauron know who held the other two elven rings?


In Book II: The Ring Goes South, chapter 7, Galadriel states that Sauron is only starting to suspect that she is holding one of the three great elf rings, Nenya. How about the other two rings?



  • Did Sauron know that Elrond is holding one of the rings?

  • Did Sauron know that Cirdan used to hold one of the rings?

  • Did Sauron know that Gandalf is holding one of the rings?




Answer



The Second Age


At first Sauron did not know, but he could guess:



Concerning the Three Rings Sauron could learn nothing from Celebrimbor; and he had him put to death. But he guessed the truth, that the Three had been committed to Elvish guardians: and that must mean to Galadriel and Gil-galad.


Unfinished Tales Part 2: The Second Age Chapter IV: "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn"



At this time, of course, Galadriel was holding Nenya and Gil-galad had Vilya and (possibly) Narya1.


Vilya passes to Elrond about 4 years after this2, after Sauron is routed by the Númenóreans:




[B]roken and humiliated [Sauron] returned to Mordor, and vowed vengeance upon Númenor. The army that was besieging Imladris was caught between Elrond and Gil-galad, and utterly destroyed. Eriador was cleared of the enemy, but lay largely in ruins.


At this time the first Council was held, and it was there determined that an Elvish stronghold in the east of Eriador should be maintained at Imladris rather than in Eregion. At that time also Gil-galad gave Vilya, the Blue Ring, to Elrond, and appointed him to be his vice-regent in Eriador;


Unfinished Tales Part 2: The Second Age Chapter IV: "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn"



I can't find any further account of what Sauron knows about the Ringbearers in the Second Age. Galadriel's comment in Fellowship suggests that he still only suspects, but doesn't know. It seems likely that he still believed Gil-galad possessed one (or more), Gil-galad being the High King and all, but I can find no reference.


And of course Sauron had bigger problems at the conclusion of the Second Age.


The Third Age


Galadriel suggests that Sauron never became definitively aware that she bore Nenya:



Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper.



'[Sauron] suspects, but he does not know - not yet.


Fellowship of the Ring Book II Chapter 7: "The Mirror of Galadriel"



Although Galadriel is not infallible (being a character in the book and all), she suggests that she has a degree of access to Sauron's mind, so we can probably take her at her word:



I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!


Fellowship of the Ring Book II Chapter 7: "The Mirror of Galadriel"



As for Vilya and Narya, its unknown. Considering Sauron had killed Gil-galad in the Battle of the Dagorlad, he probably knew Gil-galad didn't have any of them. However, it's unclear to what extent he is aware of the others.


It seems reasonable to suspect Elrond and Círdan, as the other two leaders of the last High Elven regions in Middle-earth. But if he merely suspected Galadriel, the most obvious choice in the Third Age, then I don't think we can say anything more conclusive than "he suspected" regarding the other two either.



Gandalf is an interesting case, since Saruman knew that he possessed Narya:



And the Grey Messenger took the Ring [of Fire], and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest.


Unfinished Tales Part 4 Chapter 2 "The Istari"



Considering how badly Saruman was being manipulated by Sauron through the palantir, I can't imagine Sauron not knowing, but I have no evidence to suggest he did.




1 It's not entirely clear when Gil-galad entrusted Narya to Círdan; according to Unfinished Tales:



Celebrimbor followed [Galadriel's] counsel that the Ring of Air and the Ring of Fire should be sent out of Eregion; and he entrusted them to Gil-galad in Lindon. (It is said here that at this time Gil-galad gave Narya, the Red Ring, to Círdan Lord of the Havens, but later in the narrative there is a marginal note that he kept it himself until he set out for the War of the Last Alliance.)



Unfinished Tales Part 2: The Second Age Chapter IV: "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn"



2 According to Appendix B:



1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.


[...]


1701 Sauron is driven out of Eriador. The Westlands have peace for a long while.


Return of the King Appendix B: "The Tale of Years" (i) The Second Age



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...