Skip to main content

the lord of the rings - Who's older: Treebeard or Tom Bombadil?


Tom Bombadil says this to the hobbits, in reply to the question "who are you?":




(...) But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that’s what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.



So basically, he was here before everything else. After Helm's Deep, when a party rides to Isengard, Gandalf says this to Théoden:



Well, Théoden, will you ride with me to find Treebeard? We must go round about, but it is not far. When you see Treebeard, you will learn much. For Treebeard is Fangorn, and the eldest and chief of the Ents, and when you speak with him you will hear the speech of the oldest of all living things.



Maybe this is just an inconsistency not intended by Tolkien, I don't know. A few years ago, I read somewhere that Tom Bombadil is not "a living creature" in a traditional sense, but there wasn't a strong argument supporting that. What is your take?



Answer



Yavanna had created the trees and Melkor was destroying them. So to help Yavanna, Iluvatar sent spirits with which to ensoul certain trees to serve as protectors of the others: these creatures were the Ents. Treebeard was the oldest of the Ents, and so the firstborn of all sentient or perhaps animate things on Arda, or as Gandalf loosely says, 'living creatures'. Trees and other plants did come before Ents. This is all in the Simarillion.


That takes care of Treebeard. What of Tom Bombadil?



In the entire canon of LOTR/Silmarillon (and to my knowledge all Tolkien's writings but then I haven't read them all now, have I?) there is no in-universe explanation* of who or what Bombadil is. A Maia? A Vala? Eru himself? Some other kind of being? All sorts of theories have been proposed. But in the stories? As Goldberry says, "He is".


So if Bombadil told the truth when he said he was older than the seeds of the trees, then he was older than Treebeard. But he may have lied. Or was mistaken. Or Gandalf lied. Or was mistaken. Or Bombadil may not have been of Arda but of the Heavens. The stories don't say.


*Out-of-universe, Tolkien had already invented the character of Tom Bombadil prior to LOTR and included him as "an 'allegory', or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science..."


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

futurama - How much time is lost in 'Time Keeps on Slippin''

In time Keeps on Slippin' , Farnsworth creates a basketball team which he matures by abusing Chronitons. This leads to time skipping forward by random, but ever increasing amounts. How much time was skipped in this way? Answer Unfortunately, I don't think a good estimate can be made for this, for two reasons: Many of the time skips move forward by an indeterminate amount of time. At one point, the Professor mentions localized regions of space skipping forward much more than others. We then see two young boys on the street below complaining about having to pay social security, only to suddenly become senior citizens and start complaining about wanting their money. Thus, each individual could have experienced a different amount of time skippage.

aliens - Interstellar Zoo story

I vaguely remember this story from my childhood: it was about an interstellar zoo that came to Earth with lots of bizarre and unusual species, and humans would file through and gape at all the crazy looking creatures from other planets. The twist came at the end when the perspective shifted to the other side of the bars and we discovered that the "creatures" were traveling through space on a kind of safari. They thought they were the visitors and we were the animals. Neither side knew that the other side thought they were the zoo creatures. Answer Got it. Zoo, by Edward D. Hoch. Published in 1958. Link to Publication History Link to PDF

harry potter - What is the difference between Diffindo and Sectumsempra?

In the Harry Potter books, Diffindo is called the 'Severing Charm' and it’s most commonly used to cut ropes and the like. However, in the last book Hermione uses it on Ron but misses, creating a 'slash in his jeans' and his knee gets cut, causing him to 'roar in pain'. We've only seen Sectumsempra used once on screen when Harry directly uses it on Malfoy in the sixth book, but there it's mentioned that he is 'waving his wand wildly'. Wouldn't Diffindo, if used in such a fashion also cause a similar effect? Similarly, if it was able to cut Ron, it would also be able to, say, chop off an ear (George's)? In that case, how are these two spells different, except for Sectumsempra seemingly used exclusively to hurt humans? Answer While Diffindo and Sectumsempra both can be countered by other spells, Diffindo is far more easily countered. Reparo, a relatively common spell, can completely reverse its effect when used once. “He pulled the old cop...

harry potter - How could Expelliarmus beat Avada Kedavra?

I want to be very careful about how I ask this question – I am not asking How did Voldemort die? [CLOSED] Below the text is the relevant passages from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows if anyone wants to review them (I'm sorry for the amount of text). How did Expelliarmus beat Avada Kedavra and kill Voldemort? I feel the reason Harry's Expelliarmus overpowered Voldemort's Avada Kedavra curse has to do with who was master of the Elder Wand and how the Elder Wand works. I've always had trouble understanding fully how the Elder Wand works, though. How much did the fact that Voldemort never truly won or mastered the Elder Wand factor into how Expelliarmus reacted to Avada Kedavra and caused Avada Kedavra to rebound and kill Voldemort? An answer based in book canon would be especially welcome, but any canon source really is fine. Harry heard the high voice shriek as he, too, yelled his best hope to the heavens, pointing Draco’s wand: ‘ Avada Kedavra !’ ‘ Expelliarmus !...