Skip to main content

game of thrones - As things stand, will House Stark go extinct?


According to the family tree in A World of Ice and Fire Ned Stark's children are in fact the only surviving Starks. And as of S06E09;



Bran is the only legitimate, male Stark.




In the Season Six Finale it is revealed that;



Jon is in fact the Son of Lyanna Stark and most likely, Rhaegar Targaryen.



This means that if Jon was legitimised and there was record of his birth in the Citadel;



He would become a Targaryen.



So I guess my big question is: Can Bran father children? I find it to be quite an important issue considering House Stark's long term survival depends on it.


In season 4 (I can't remember which episode) Locke Bolton gives Bran a cut on the leg to confirm his identity. Bran reacts only with fear and not pain, indicating that he has no feeling below his waist.



Does this mean that he wouldn't be able to...get it up? And if so, why hasn't the show addressed House Stark's impending doom?



Answer



Can Bran sire children?


House Stark is not doomed. Bran is the only surviving legitimate male Stark but he is probably unlikely to father children due to his disability. But he is not the only Stark alive.


Since some of our members seem to believe that Bran can have intercourse and that medical science in Planetos and our world are same, I'd like to quote Eddard Stark:



“I dreamed of Bran,” Sansa had whispered to him. “I saw him smiling.”


“He was going to be a knight,” Arya was saying now. “A knight of the Kingsguard. Can he still be a knight?”


“No,” Ned said. He saw no use in lying to her. “Yet someday he may be the lord of a great holdfast and sit on the king’s council. He might raise castles like Brandon the Builder, or sail a ship across the Sunset Sea, or enter your mother’s Faith and become the High Septon.” But he will never run beside his wolf again, he thought with a sadness too deep for words, or lie with a woman, or hold his own son in his arms.




That is the only mention of Bran's ability to procreate as far as I can recall. And his own father seems to believe that Bran can never lie with a woman aka have sex and he would never sire a child.


But I also have to add that I am not a medical expert to provide a definite ruling on the matter. I am only building on what the author has provided us with in the books.


In any case, Can Bran have children? Maybe, Maybe not. Do other characters in universe seem to think he will have children? No they don't.


Other surviving Starks


But despite all that, Bran has two legitimate sisters; Sansa Stark and Arya Stark. Arya is still too young but Sansa is of age to bear children. Any children Arya and Sansa may bear can carry the Stark name and inherit the North from their uncle Brandon Stark. Any man they might marry can also take Stark name and the children born out of such union will be just as much Stark as children of a male Stark.


Also in the books, Rickon is still alive and is therefore heir to Bran.


Precedence for female line


There is precedence for female line furthering a great House.


This is not the first time for House Stark to look to female line for survival if Wildlings can be believed. Lord Brandon Stark fathered no children except a daughter. The daughter was supposedly abducted by King Beyond the Wall, Bael the Bard. Brandon was distraught because this meant extinction of House Stark. But later the girl was found with a child fathered by Bael. That child was brought up as a Stark and succeeded his grandfather upon his death.


House Lannister was once in a similar dilemma. King Gerold III Lannister died without a male issue. He had only one daughter and she was married to a Knight named Joffrey Lydden. Upon King Gerold's death, Ser Joffrey was crowned as King of the Rock by council of Westerlander nobility and he took the name Lannister due to his marriage to the Princess of the Rock. He ascended to the throne as King Joffrey I Lannister. Current Lannisters are descended from King Joffrey and daughter of King Gerold, no one considers them to be "not real Lannisters".



Another example is given in succession crisis of House Hornwood*. Lord Halys Hornwood died in battle against Tywin Lannister. His only legitimate child Daryn Hornwood died in battle against Jaime Lannister. The considered candidates to carry on Hornwood names were:



  1. Larence Snow - A bastard son of Lord Halys Hornwood. He could be legitimized by King in the North to be the next Lord Hornwood.

  2. Beren Tallhart - Younger son of Lord Halys' sister, Berena Hornwood. His father offered that Beren would take Hornwood name if he was to be named heir of Halys Hornwood.


Another example is kindly reminded by Broklynite. Lady Maege Mormont's children carry the Mormont name. It is unclear who is the father of those kids. When Maege's brother Jeor Mormont abdicated his seat and took the black, Jeor's son Jorah Mormont became Lord of Bear Island. Jorah then went into exile without siring any kids so Maege Mormont became lady of Bear Island. Her children are considered Mormonts. (But this would be a weak example because we do not know who is her husband. If he is/was a Mormont as well, this example won't hold).


So even if Lords of the North refuse to have Sansa as their Queen like Lords of Westerlands refused to have King Gerold's daughter as their Queen, Sansa's husband can instead be crowned as King in the North (Now you know why Petyr Baelish was so eager to marry Sansa) if he takes the Stark name just like Joffrey Lydden.


* The Succession crisis of House Hornwood never occurred in the show.


Who can take Stark name?


By law, a man can only take Stark name:




  1. By right of marriage to a Stark woman

  2. By right of descent from a Stark woman

  3. By grant of legitimization decree for removal of bastardy taint from the King provided he is a bastard of a Stark man or woman.

  4. By right of birth to a Stark man in wedlock (The normal way)


There is no other way or precedent to be a Stark. So Arya, Jon and Sansa all have equal potential to further the Stark line even if Bran cannot.


Why show hasn't showed that potential succession crisis?


Because there is no succession crisis. if Bran comes back to take his place as King in the North as eldest surviving son of Eddard Stark and reveals that Jon is not a Stark, House Stark is still not doomed. Even if Bran fathers no children, Sansa stands as his heir. Whoever marries Sansa can take the Stark name for himself and the children of that man and Sansa will be named Starks. Even Jon can take Stark name if he wishes due to his descent from sister of Lord Eddard Stark if Bran legitimizes him (Ironically, Jon would then also be able to take Targaryen name, not just Stark name).


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

languages - Do we ever see written English in the Star Wars films?

In Empire Strikes Back , we see a transcription of what R2's beeps and bloops mean, but it's not English (sorry for the low quality, it's from the 2004 DVDs): I'd assume it's what Basic looks like when written, but is there some point in the the Star Wars films we see written English instead? (This sort of spun off from a discussion in How do people understand astromech droids? .) Answer At one point there was English but it has been phased out in subsequent versions of the films. Chris Gould at DVD Active did a comparison of all versions of each of the Star Wars films, and in his comparison of Episode 4 , there are a couple of screenshots showing how the power gauge for the Death Star tractor beam was changed. I imagine there are probably more to be found in his other comparisons but I haven't got around to reading those yet.

Was the "pure soul" of Harry's what had really hurt Voldemort?

In the Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort possesses Harry, and it hurts. Greatly. I think that Dumbledore explained that it was because Voldemort's rotten soul was incapable of assimilating Harry's pure soul, that Voldemort didn't understand the love and friendship etc that Harry has in his heart. But, I think it was a lie. Remember that in Deathly Hallows, while looking for information regarding Horcruxes, it is discovered that it is in fact possible to merge a soul fragment back, but that the process was extremely painful. Now then, if Voldemort tried to possess Harry, and Harry had a fragment of Voldemort's soul, I think that it could have been the true cause of Voldemort's pain: the fact of having his soul so close of another fragment. I think that Dumbledore knew that fact, but had to lie to Harry because it was inappropriate to let him know that he had one of Voldemort's soul fragments at the moment. Is that right? Or was it truly the pure soul of Harry's...

star wars - What "exactly" happens when someone turns to the Dark Side?

When I saw the original Star Wars saga as a kid, the concept of the Dark Side imprinted in me was quite simple. You did a bad thing, so you're a bad person so you go to the Dark Side and keep doing bad things. Now, obviously this doesn't hold true in reality. In my mind it is perfectly reasonable for Luke to kill the Emperor and Vader and then just flee the Death Star and rejoin the Alliance. After all they are at war, those are enemy officers that have captured him and are taunting him by threatening with death of all loved ones and the whole operation was intended to kill the Emperor anyway. The same would hold true for Anakin. He could have killed Mace Windu to save the Chancellor and Padme but that doesn't mean he's going to then go mad and kill all Jedis including children. It doesn't add up from a merely psychological point of view. He had a set of objectives and that made him want to keep the Chancellor alive (quite valid by the way, Mace Windu is quite clums...

star trek - Warning regarding forward saucer section in Nemesis?

In Star Trek: Nemesis , just before the Enterprise rams into the Scimitar, Picard sends a text message from his captain's chair arm pad to Troi — who is manning the helm in lieu of the crewman who was just blown out through what was once the view screen — indicating that she should put full impulse on standby. (Literally, if you watch the scene closely, Troi's console prefaces the order with "TXT MSG" !) My question is: Did Picard also somehow warn crew members in the forward saucer section about what was about to happen? The ramming of the Scimitar was a heat of the moment decision. Considering that he also resorted to calling the auto-destruct sequence shortly after (which ended up being offline), he probably was of the mindset that any losses would be acceptable in order to hault Shinzon's march to Earth. Still, I'm curious. Answer The original script indicates that he called for the crew to " brace for impact ". Whether that call (or the comma...