Skip to main content

game of thrones - How long would it take to do a recon dragon flight north of the wall?



It feels like Daenerys can easily fly her dragons (or train riders) north of the wall on a reconnaissance mission (or to spy on rival armies).


Consider a trip from (for example) Dragonstone to the Wall. By all estimates, this would be less than 2000 miles, and the dragons have already proved that they can make very long flights.


How long would such a trip really take (as the dragon flies)? Has there been any explanation as to why the dragons are not used in this way?



Answer



NOTE: This is a books answer as there is no indication in the show regarding the question.


GRRM's Position


First of all, it is by design that GRRM remains ambiguous about distances, time and speed. He just doesn't want people to go around with a stopwatch and a measuring tape and find errors in his story.


When a fan asked how big is Westeros, his answer was:



I have deliberately tried to be vague about such things, so I don't have obsessive fans with rulers measuring distances on the map and telling me Ned couldn't get from X to Y in the time I say he did.



However, if you really must know, you can figure out the distances for yourself. The Wall is a hundred leagues long. A league is three miles. Go from there.


But if you turn up any mistakes in travel times by using that measure, let it be your secret.



When another fan asked about Chronology of Sam's adventures, he replied:



The reason I am never specific about dates and distances is precisely so that people won't sit down and do this sort of thing.


My suggestion would be to put away the ruler and the stopwatch, and just enjoy the story.



So it is by design that you don't see much information about distances or time it takes to cover a certain distance for varying means of transport.


But are there any indications in the Books?



Yes there are. Prince Daemon and Princess Rhaenyra used to race to Dragonstone on their dragons and back to Kingslanding almost every day.



Princess Rhaenyra was a different matter. Daemon spent long hours in her company, enthralling her with tales of her journeys and battles. He gave her pearls and silks and books and a jade tiara said once to have belonged to the Empress of Leng, read poems to her, dined with her, hawked with her, sailed with her, entertained her by making mock of the greens at court, the “lickspittles” fawning over Queen Alicent and her children. He praised her beauty, declaring her to be the fairest maid in all the Seven Kingdoms. Uncle and niece began to fly together almost daily, racing Syrax against Caraxes to Dragonstone and back.
- The Rogue Prince



While there are also numerous other accounts of Dragons flying from Dragonstone to Winterfell, Dragonstone to Kingslanding, Dragonstone to Storm's End, King's Landing to Harrenhal etc this is the only account which has a time factor mentioned with the words "almost daily". So that means, a small trip to Dragonstone and back could be done easily within a day. If we minus 7-9 Hours of sleep needed by both riders, minus further 2-3 Hours for getting ready, getting breakfast, feeding your dragons, minus further 2-3 hours for Lunch and Dinner, that leaves us with 10-13 workable hours. If they could easily take two trips to Dragonstone, that means in worst case scenario, it must have taken them 5-6 Hours for one-way trip. In best case, We can probably assume that it would have taken them less than 1 hour for one-way trip. There are also rumors that the Uncle and Niece took those trips to carry on with, uh certain family affairs, away from the prying eyes of the Court. So it must have taken them a few hours to carry on, uh those activities which makes the case for <1 Hours even stronger.


Now that is only less than a couple hundred Miles from King's Landing to Dragonstone.


Now let's a take a larger example. The travel from Winterfell to the Wall. It is a long journey, as per your own inaccurate map it is supposed to be around 600-700 miles away. Queen Alysanne grew bored one day while her husband was busy talking to his Warden of the North in Winterfell, so she took wing and went to the wall. Given the casual nature of the trip, I assume the Queen did not expect it to take longer than few hours (Else she would have at least notified someone or taken someone along with her. King was unlikely to let her go alone for long time.)



"A queen stayed there for a night." Old Nan had told him the story, but Maester Luwin had confirmed most of it. "Alysanne, the wife of King Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He's called the Old King because he reigned so long, but he was young when he first came to the Iron Throne. In those days, it was his wont to travel all over the realm. When he came to Winterfell, he brought his queen, six dragons, and half his court. The king had matters to discuss with his Warden of the North, and Alysanne grew bored, so she mounted her dragon Silverwing and flew north to see the Wall. This village was one of the places where she stopped. Afterward the smallfolk painted the top of their holdfast to look like the golden crown she'd worn when she spent the night among them."**

ASOS - Jon V



It is possible that she did notify the King and the trip may have taken longer as she stopped midway on multiple points, after all it's Jon's POV who summarizes the whole event, but we do not know it for sure.


Anyways, judging by Alysanne's trip to Wall, Rhaenyra's race to Dragonstone and Prince Jacaerys' trip to Vale~White Harbor~Winterfell, I'd put the estimate to <10 hours.


It can't be emphasized enough, that this is merely my interpretation and speculation. George doesn't want you to worry about these things.


Why aren't dragons used to spy on approaching armies?


As I said before in comments, that is because of the nature of the beast. Dragons are the ultimate weapon of destruction. They can easily destroy any army they come across so why bother with using them for recon flights? Prince Aemond showed this one-dragon army style warfare in Dance of the Dragons.


Dragons have however been used against Armies north of the Wall.


King Jaehaerys I, grandson of Aegon the Conqueror, successfully unleashed his dragons against the Army of King Beyond the Wall.




His Grace gave the babe a pearl ring off his finger to play with, and told the twins the story of how their great-great-grandsire and namesake Jaehaerys the Old King had flown his dragon north to the Wall to defeat a vast host of wildlings, giants, and wargs. The children listened attentively. Afterward the king sent them away, pleading weariness.
- The Rogue Prince



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...