Skip to main content

tolkiens legendarium - Why did Thingol refuse to let Luthien marry Beren?


It seems quite hypocritical that Thingol wouldn't let Beren marry his daughter yet he is married to a Maia. Thingol came upon Melian and instantly fell in love with her in Beleriand, then Beren comes along in the same fashion Thingol did and yet he isn't allowed to be married to her. Why is this?



Answer



This is answered explicitly in the text (emphasis mine):




Thingol looked in silence upon Lúthien; and he thought in his heart: 'Unhappy Men, children of little lords and brief kings, shall such as these lay hands on you, and yet live?'


The Silmarillion III Quenta Silmarillion Chapter 19: "Of Beren and Lúthien"



Thingol's objection is twofold:




  1. Men are comparatively low-rank. This is classism as much as it is good old-fashioned racism; at this point in Middle-earth's history, there are no great kingdoms of Men. Although there are the Three Great Houses, they're just tenants of the Elf-lords, rather than lords in their own right. It's not until the Second Age that we get the first real Kingdom of Men.





  2. They're mortal. This one is just racism, basically. But bear in mind that there's no precedent for an Immortal marrying a Mortal; although Thingol married a Maia, they're to fairly similar beings, at least spiritually. For Thingol, who at the time of this tale has lived for thousands of years, 30-year-old Beren seems rather unimpressive.


    Although it's not touched on in this instance, there is a practical edge to this complaint, which Tolkien addresses in an essay titled "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth." The essay is the text of a discussion between Finrod Felagund and Andreth, a human wisewoman; the two talk about a number of things, but most relevant for our purposes is a discussion about he potential of a relationship between Andreth and Finrod's younger brother Aegnor:



    'I would not have troubled him, when my short youth was spent. I would not have hobbled as a hag after his bright feet, when I could no longer run beside him!'


    'Maybe not,' said Finrod. 'So you feel now. But do you think of him? He would not have run before thee. He would have stayed at thy side to uphold thee. Then pity thou wouldst have had in every hour, pity inescapable. He would not have thee so shamed.


    'Andreth adaneth, the life and love of the Eldar dwells much in memory; and we (if not ye) would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end. Now he will ever remember thee in the sun of morning, and that last evening by the water of Aeluin in which he saw thy face mirrored with a star caught in thy hair - ever, until the North-wind brings the night of his flame. Yea, and after that, sitting in the House of Mandos in the Halls of Awaiting until the end of Arda.


    History of Middle-earth X Morgoth's Ring Part 4: "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth"



    Finrod's argument is that, had they married, Aegnor would have remained faithful to Andreth for her entire life, as she aged and died and he remained perpetually young (which is consistent with Elvish tradition; they mate for life, and re-marriage is exceptionally rare). That would have been incredibly embarrassing for Andreth, who would have felt like a burden on her immortal husband, and would have saddened Aegnor to have to remember her as an invalid.


    Although we can't be confident that Thingol was thinking about this at the time, it does lend a certain legitimacy to his point of view; it's just bad news for all concerned.





Comments

Popular posts from this blog

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...

What is the etymology of Doctor Who?

I recently decided to watch Doctor Who, and started viewing the 2005 version. I have the first two episodes from the first season, and I can't help but wonder what is the etymology of the name "Doctor Who"? And why does the protagonist call himself "the Doctor" (or is it "the doctor")? Answer In the very first episode of Doctor Who (way back in 1963), the Doctor has a granddaughter going by the name "Susan Foreman", and the junkyard where the TARDIS is has the sign "I.M. Foreman". Barbara, who becomes one of the Doctor's companions, calls him "Doctor Foreman" (probably assuming that is his name given his relationship to Susan), and Ian (another early companion) does the same in the second episode, to which the Doctor says: Eh? Doctor who? What's he talking about? "Foreman" is most likely selected as a convenient surname for Susan to use because it happened to be on display near where the TARDIS landed....

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...