Skip to main content

tolkiens legendarium - Is there direct evidence that the Riverfolk were actually Hobbits?


I understand that Smeagol was a Hobbit-like creature at least and always thought the "river-folk" were distantly related beings (similar to say, the Hyena and the Dog, but not actually exactly the same species. Many people seem to believe the contrary and talk as if the "river-folk" were, in fact, Hobbits for sure.


The Tolkien Gateway, Wikia, and others even specify he was originally a stoorish hobbit, where does the evidence to support this come from - or is there any?


The thing relevant quote from The Hobbit:



Riddles were all [Gollum] could think of. Asking them, and sometimes guessing them, had been the only game he had ever played with other funny creatures sitting in their holes in the long, long ago, before the goblins came, and he was cut off from his friends far under under the mountains.


Gollum brought up memories of ages and ages and ages before, when he lived with his grandmother in a hole in a bank by a river (…) Gollum remembered thieving from nests long ago, and sitting under the river bank teaching his grandmother, teaching his grandmother to suck—"Eggses!" he hissed.




While the idea of the hole, enjoying riddles, and living a seeming idyllic life are reminiscent of Hobbits, they do not generally like water so would not be boatmen or live along a river bank, and thieving eggs for food doesn't sound very hobbitish either.


Of course there are exceptions to the rules of Hobbit society (Bilbo, being one of them) and things evolve and change over-time, perhaps an ancient predecessor society such as that something more than 500 years old (such as Gollum) may have been more of a fishing kind of creature (I believe it was a group of Brandybucks that did enjoy living nearer the river in "modern" Hobbit culture), but I just don't remember anything that said for certain he was in fact a hobbit for sure - let alone specified any stoorish origins. I'd love to know where this idea originates.


I know there are other passages in LOTR's such as the one where he talks about even forgetting what bread tastes like and it has been years since I've read the entire thing so I hope I am not missing something obvious here.


Is there anything more definite or is this just a hinted at thing left up for personal interpretation that most people have interpreted to mean it is a sure thing that he was once a hobbit?



Answer



Yes.


In the Tale of Years for TA 2463 (RotK Appendix B) we have the following entry:



About this time Déagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is murdered by Sméagol




This is as unambiguous as it's possible to get: Stoors are Hobbits and Déagol was a Stoor.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

futurama - How much time is lost in 'Time Keeps on Slippin''

In time Keeps on Slippin' , Farnsworth creates a basketball team which he matures by abusing Chronitons. This leads to time skipping forward by random, but ever increasing amounts. How much time was skipped in this way? Answer Unfortunately, I don't think a good estimate can be made for this, for two reasons: Many of the time skips move forward by an indeterminate amount of time. At one point, the Professor mentions localized regions of space skipping forward much more than others. We then see two young boys on the street below complaining about having to pay social security, only to suddenly become senior citizens and start complaining about wanting their money. Thus, each individual could have experienced a different amount of time skippage.

harry potter - How could Expelliarmus beat Avada Kedavra?

I want to be very careful about how I ask this question – I am not asking How did Voldemort die? [CLOSED] Below the text is the relevant passages from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows if anyone wants to review them (I'm sorry for the amount of text). How did Expelliarmus beat Avada Kedavra and kill Voldemort? I feel the reason Harry's Expelliarmus overpowered Voldemort's Avada Kedavra curse has to do with who was master of the Elder Wand and how the Elder Wand works. I've always had trouble understanding fully how the Elder Wand works, though. How much did the fact that Voldemort never truly won or mastered the Elder Wand factor into how Expelliarmus reacted to Avada Kedavra and caused Avada Kedavra to rebound and kill Voldemort? An answer based in book canon would be especially welcome, but any canon source really is fine. Harry heard the high voice shriek as he, too, yelled his best hope to the heavens, pointing Draco’s wand: ‘ Avada Kedavra !’ ‘ Expelliarmus !...

game of thrones - Is Syrio Forel dead?

In the episode 'The Pointy End' (Season 1 Episode 8) when Arya runs from the Lannister guards you hear the sound of a sword being dropped (around 4:56): [embedded content] After that neither Syrio or Ser Meryn Trant is never mentioned or seen in the show again, except when Arya mentions to the Hound that Ser Meryn Trant killed Syrio. Is there any mention in the books that Syrio actually dies?

tolkiens legendarium - Difference between elves and dwarves blacksmithing in the Lord of the Rings

Both the elves and the dwarves were famous for their metal work in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but what is the difference between what they made, and which one had the better skill of making amours and swords? Answer James Christopher's answer sums up the second part of your question well, but as to the difference in what they made, a little more detail is needed. Once the Elves learned to forge with steel, the shape of the sword changed, now being able to take on the form of a great broadsword or a light and agile curved sword. Additionally, they took great pride in decorating their swords. As we see in the Lord of the Rings , some swords like Sting had magical properties such as glowing blue when orcs are near. As far as the use of Mithril, lotr.wikia has two contradictory passages: Thus, Elven blades became renowned as great weapons, capable of performing deeds beyond the skill of their handlers and were even more glorious when the use of Mithril was allowed to the Elves. ...