Skip to main content

a song of ice and fire - Why is he still Brynden Rivers and not Targaryen?


Lord Brynden Rivers AKA "Bloodraven" was a legitimised bastard son of Aegon IV Targaryen.



My question is, Why did he keep "Rivers" as his last name and not change it to "Targaryen"? or at least "Blackwood"?


Consider this line from A Storm of Swords:



All he had to do was say the word, and he would be Jon Stark, and nevermore a Snow.
-A Song of Ice and Fire: A Storm of Swords, Chapter Seventy-Six (Jon).




Answer



As others have pointed out, the only examples from A Song of Ice and Fire of legitimized names are (hypothetically) Jon Snow becoming Jon Stark and Ramsay Snow becoming Ramsay Bolton. The Princess and the Queen adds another example: Addam and Alyn Velaryon, the bastards sons of Lord Corlys Velaryon.


Since none of the Great Bastards went by Targeryen, it clearly isn't a concrete rule. So the only real question is what determines the name change. I have a few theories:


Only bastards legitimized for the express purpose of inheritance gain the last name. Jon, Ramsay, and Addam and Alyn were all being legitimized because their fathers lacked a male heir. It would be curious then that both the Velayron bastards were legitimized, but I imagine that could be explained by the fact that there was a war on, and Addam's survival wasn't a given by any means.



The Great Bastards were legitimized, but with the understanding that Aegon the Unworthy's firstborn Dareon would be placed on the throne. Given that Dareon had four sons, the chances of any of his half-brothers taking the throne through the line of succession would be remote.


This is my preferred theory, especially since Petyr Baelish strongly implies that even the legitimate Harry Hardyng would become an Arryn if he inherited the Eyrie:



When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon...



Personal preference- Jon Snow always dreamed of becoming a Stark, and Ramsay hated that he was a bastard. It may be that one gets to choose whether or not to take their father's name. The Great Bastards had a pretty awful man for a father, and Brynden in particular seemed to embrace the disdain and fear others had for him. Meanwhile, the other Great Bastards went by names like Blackfyre and Seastar that reflected their backgrounds or personalities.


It may have to do with the mother- All the known Great Bastards were the children of noblewomen. By contrast, Jon (allegedly), Ramsay, and the Velayron boys were the sons of commoners. It might be that when the children of two nobles are legitimized, they don't get a surname or some reason, perhaps to avoid disputes with the noblewoman's husband and children.


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

futurama - How much time is lost in 'Time Keeps on Slippin''

In time Keeps on Slippin' , Farnsworth creates a basketball team which he matures by abusing Chronitons. This leads to time skipping forward by random, but ever increasing amounts. How much time was skipped in this way? Answer Unfortunately, I don't think a good estimate can be made for this, for two reasons: Many of the time skips move forward by an indeterminate amount of time. At one point, the Professor mentions localized regions of space skipping forward much more than others. We then see two young boys on the street below complaining about having to pay social security, only to suddenly become senior citizens and start complaining about wanting their money. Thus, each individual could have experienced a different amount of time skippage.
Post a Comment
Read more

aliens - Interstellar Zoo story

I vaguely remember this story from my childhood: it was about an interstellar zoo that came to Earth with lots of bizarre and unusual species, and humans would file through and gape at all the crazy looking creatures from other planets. The twist came at the end when the perspective shifted to the other side of the bars and we discovered that the "creatures" were traveling through space on a kind of safari. They thought they were the visitors and we were the animals. Neither side knew that the other side thought they were the zoo creatures. Answer Got it. Zoo, by Edward D. Hoch. Published in 1958. Link to Publication History Link to PDF
Post a Comment
Read more

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...
Post a Comment
Read more

harry potter - What is the difference between Diffindo and Sectumsempra?

In the Harry Potter books, Diffindo is called the 'Severing Charm' and it’s most commonly used to cut ropes and the like. However, in the last book Hermione uses it on Ron but misses, creating a 'slash in his jeans' and his knee gets cut, causing him to 'roar in pain'. We've only seen Sectumsempra used once on screen when Harry directly uses it on Malfoy in the sixth book, but there it's mentioned that he is 'waving his wand wildly'. Wouldn't Diffindo, if used in such a fashion also cause a similar effect? Similarly, if it was able to cut Ron, it would also be able to, say, chop off an ear (George's)? In that case, how are these two spells different, except for Sectumsempra seemingly used exclusively to hurt humans? Answer While Diffindo and Sectumsempra both can be countered by other spells, Diffindo is far more easily countered. Reparo, a relatively common spell, can completely reverse its effect when used once. “He pulled the old cop...
Post a Comment
Read more