Skip to main content

a song of ice and fire - Why is he still Brynden Rivers and not Targaryen?


Lord Brynden Rivers AKA "Bloodraven" was a legitimised bastard son of Aegon IV Targaryen.



My question is, Why did he keep "Rivers" as his last name and not change it to "Targaryen"? or at least "Blackwood"?


Consider this line from A Storm of Swords:



All he had to do was say the word, and he would be Jon Stark, and nevermore a Snow.
-A Song of Ice and Fire: A Storm of Swords, Chapter Seventy-Six (Jon).




Answer



As others have pointed out, the only examples from A Song of Ice and Fire of legitimized names are (hypothetically) Jon Snow becoming Jon Stark and Ramsay Snow becoming Ramsay Bolton. The Princess and the Queen adds another example: Addam and Alyn Velaryon, the bastards sons of Lord Corlys Velaryon.


Since none of the Great Bastards went by Targeryen, it clearly isn't a concrete rule. So the only real question is what determines the name change. I have a few theories:


Only bastards legitimized for the express purpose of inheritance gain the last name. Jon, Ramsay, and Addam and Alyn were all being legitimized because their fathers lacked a male heir. It would be curious then that both the Velayron bastards were legitimized, but I imagine that could be explained by the fact that there was a war on, and Addam's survival wasn't a given by any means.



The Great Bastards were legitimized, but with the understanding that Aegon the Unworthy's firstborn Dareon would be placed on the throne. Given that Dareon had four sons, the chances of any of his half-brothers taking the throne through the line of succession would be remote.


This is my preferred theory, especially since Petyr Baelish strongly implies that even the legitimate Harry Hardyng would become an Arryn if he inherited the Eyrie:



When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon...



Personal preference- Jon Snow always dreamed of becoming a Stark, and Ramsay hated that he was a bastard. It may be that one gets to choose whether or not to take their father's name. The Great Bastards had a pretty awful man for a father, and Brynden in particular seemed to embrace the disdain and fear others had for him. Meanwhile, the other Great Bastards went by names like Blackfyre and Seastar that reflected their backgrounds or personalities.


It may have to do with the mother- All the known Great Bastards were the children of noblewomen. By contrast, Jon (allegedly), Ramsay, and the Velayron boys were the sons of commoners. It might be that when the children of two nobles are legitimized, they don't get a surname or some reason, perhaps to avoid disputes with the noblewoman's husband and children.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...

What is the etymology of Doctor Who?

I recently decided to watch Doctor Who, and started viewing the 2005 version. I have the first two episodes from the first season, and I can't help but wonder what is the etymology of the name "Doctor Who"? And why does the protagonist call himself "the Doctor" (or is it "the doctor")? Answer In the very first episode of Doctor Who (way back in 1963), the Doctor has a granddaughter going by the name "Susan Foreman", and the junkyard where the TARDIS is has the sign "I.M. Foreman". Barbara, who becomes one of the Doctor's companions, calls him "Doctor Foreman" (probably assuming that is his name given his relationship to Susan), and Ian (another early companion) does the same in the second episode, to which the Doctor says: Eh? Doctor who? What's he talking about? "Foreman" is most likely selected as a convenient surname for Susan to use because it happened to be on display near where the TARDIS landed....

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...