Skip to main content

star wars - Did Yoda definitely know who the other hope was?


When Yoda said "there is another," I always figured it had to do with Darth Vader. The ending makes much more sense that way.


The counter-argument that I keep seeing is that Yoda was specifically referring to Leia. I don't think that this is necessarily true.



To me it seems like this: Yoda just didn't know who the other hope was. He felt a really strong force, and felt that it had some good in it. It doesn't mean he knew whom it belonged to. He was a Jedi master, not a prophet. Even if it were powerful enough to belong to a Skywalker, we can't really blame Yoda for not considering Vader a candidate. Seems to me that when he said "there is another," he meant exactly that, and nothing more: there is another hope.


Again: I don't think Yoda necessarily knew it was Vader. But I don't think he was sure about it being Leia either. Ben believes Yoda meant Leia, but there is a couple of reasons to think that he and Yoda differed on that. In response to "That boy is our last hope," Yoda's cryptic words are "No. There is another." It is an odd thing to say to Ben, who was well aware that Padme had two children. Yoda would have just said "His sister there always is." Ben's belief that Yoda meant Leia is mistaken, but understandable: Vader was quite a bad guy, and Yoda had reservations about Anakin from the get-go. It seems to me that the viewer is being intentionally misled in order to make Vader's change of heart that much more impactful.


The plot itself also suggests that Vader was the real other last hope. Leia was very helpful, but her help was a bit more general, not reflecting a "last hope" role. In addition, her help had very little to do with her being a Skywalker. She could have done all the stuff she did being a Dolan, Smith, or Schwartzbraum. Her being Luke's sister benefited Han Solo, but that's about it.


However, Darth Vader very much played the role of "another last hope." When Luke was beaten and the need for "another" became real, it was Vader's decision to turn from the dark side that made the difference; he very much delivered on his role as "another." And he did it precisely because he was Luke's father. The last hope did end up resting on a Skywalker - not because of his powers, but because of his love for his son. It makes a lot more sense than Leia's rather unfulfilled "last hope" role.



Answer



In the context of the final in-universe movies


The "other hope" is pretty unambiguously Leia. Even ignoring the prequels, Ben specifically states who Yoda was referring to.


When we add in the prequels, Yoda clearly believes that Leia is an option, at least at the time of her birth, even using the word "hope" when it comes to them.


From Revenge of the Sith:




OBI-WAN: I will take the child and watch over him. Master Yoda, do you think Anakin's twins will be able to defeat Darth Sidious?


YODA: Strong the Force runs, in the Skywalker line. Hope, we can . . . Done, it is. Until the time is right, disappear we will.



In the context of the development of the movies


This is actually slightly fuzzy.


The annotated screenplay touches on the subject. In the second and third draft, Ben and Yoda don't actually have anyone in mind; they're not even entirely sure that there is someone else.



In [the second draft] there's no hint that there may be another hope if Luke fails. In the revised second draft a few lines of dialogue were added as Luke's X-wing disappears in the sky: Yoda says: "Now we must find another." Ben replies: "He is our only hope." And in the third draft, after Luke takes off, Ben says: "The boy is our last hope." Yoda replies: "No ... We must search for another."


George Lucas: "My feeling about Luke being the last hope was really done in an effort to make sure that he was in some jeopardy, that he might not succeed. I was trying to set up subliminally in the audience's mind that something is going on here, that he could fail. And if he does fail, 'there is another hope.' So the audience is saying, 'Don't go, finish your training.'"




Scanning through the screenplay's notes and the relevant scenes, I've been unable to find anything stating unequivocally that Leia was intended as "the other hope" during the production of Empire.


That said, the final screenplay is what we see on the screen - and aside from the changes during development, there is nothing to imply that a decision was not made by the writers/producers regarding Leia as "the other hope". The notes do not cover who Lucas/Kirshner thought might be the hope, only that earlier during development, Ben & Yoda did not have someone in mind.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...