Skip to main content

Succession of the Iron Throne after GoT Season 5 (spoilers) - who's in line?


So at the end of Season 5 of Game of Thrones,



Stannis Baratheon dies (probably).



Suppose that Tommen is discovered to be the son of Cersei and Jaime, due to



The Spanish Inquisition! Umm, I mean, the meddlesome High Sparrow and the faith militant looking for muck to stick to the current royals.




Also, suppose Gendry is unknown to the general public.


Now, by the laws and customs of the 7 kingdoms, and assuming you're not a Targaryen loyalist - who's next in line for succession?


Also, more specifically,



Are there some distant Baratheons (third-degree cousins or something) who might fit the bill? All of Robert's brothers are dead, and he has no cousines, and IIRC also no second-degree cousins.




Answer



It depends, but thanks to the Noble Houses constantly intermingling amongst one another, we'll likely be able to trace the ancestry back far enough to produce an heir, hopefully.




In Westeros, they follow the Primogeniture rules of succession[1]; which means that the Heir must be a legitimate male, until such time as all of the prime legitimate males are deceased, at which point, it goes to the eldest female. But if none are found, then it goes to the subject's next male heir (brother, cousin etc), and the process is repeated until a suitable candidate is found[2].



There is an issue of difference between the books and the TV-show. In the show Game of Thrones, bastards are not permitted to inherit anything under any circumstances![3] (unless they are legitimised by Royal Decree).


Whereas in the books, A Song of Ice and Fire, bastards are allowed to inherit, "if the father has no other trueborn children nor any other likely kin to follow him."[4]@.


This may cause some slight complications in our calculations, so I will separate the results below.






  1. Let's assume Stannis is deceased, and his issue also all deceased

  2. Robert is deceased, his issue are either baseborn[5] (illegitimate) or not even his (Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen)

  3. Renly is deceased, without issue



Let's follow the white rabbit:




  • There is no possibility of jumping the lineage to a married branch of a house, if that were the case, then Stannis' successorship would go to Selyse Baratheon nee Florent's family; who's lineage is another clusterf#@$ ending in Melessa Tarly nee Florent[6] (Sam Tarly's mother, so Sam's brother Dickon would be Stannis' heir, lol). So no help there. We have to go further up the tree.




  • Stannis had a father, Steffon Baratheon. Steffon didn't seem to have any siblings, and all of his children are deceased without heirs (we're also skipping his wife, as above), so let's go further.




  • Steffon's father, Ormund Baratheon seemed to have a sister; she was unnamed but was originally betrothed to Prince Duncan Targaryen (Duncan The Small). Duncan broke off the betrothal when he fell in love with Jenny of Oldstones. This is what caused King Aegon V Targaryen to marry off his daughter Rhaelle to Ormund Baratheon. There is no other detail on this unnamed sister, but her children would have been next in-line if they were included!





    • We could go even further back though, Lyonel The Laughing Storm Baratheon, who was Ormund's father, but again Lyonel seemed to be an only child.




    • It's getting quite sparse, and at this point it is worthless to dig any further back as the only other person we have information on is Orys Baratheon (the first Stormlord and first Hand of the King), but the line seems to whittle down to single children#, and there would probably not be any living descendants or "likely kin to follow", leading us back to Lyonel Baratheon, etc.







  • Let's come back down to earth and dig a little bit closer to home. Robert had many baseborn children[5], a few of which were acknowledged by him, including Edric Storm and Mya Stone. Mya is the eldest of his bastards, Gendry is the eldest male but Edric is the eldest acknowledged male (and is also the most lordly, having been grown up at Storm's End under the care of Ser Cortnay Penrose.



    • If these bastards are allowed to be in line, then they can probably continue the Baratheon lineage nicely, given that they are all such strong embodiments of Robert's characteristics and the "Baratheon look".




If it were up to me, I'd go with Edric Storm (being that he is the most lordly), but it could easily go to our favourite bastard, Gendry The Bull!







  1. Stannis - deceased and so are his issue

  2. Robert - deceased without legitimate issue

  3. Renly - deceased without issue


So the problem here is that there's no history past Stannis' parents (Steffon Baratheon and Cassana Baratheon nee Estermont), so there's no guarantee who their ancestors were. But the only thing we do know for sure is that they had a Targaryen great-grandmother, Rhaelle Baratheon nee Targaryen[6] (this is the same as the books). Unfortunately though, this doesn't help us, as the succession doesn't jump to someone who married into the family.


The only hope at this point, is:



  • Option 1: to do a depth-first search into the family tree, and find a child or sibling from either Steffon Baratheon (Stannis' father), Ormund Baratheon (Stannis' grandfather), Lyonel Baratheon (Stannis' great-grandfather) or all the way back to Orys Baratheon (the first Stormlord).

  • Option 2: Legitimise one of the bastard sons of Robert - most likely, Gendry (given that in the show, Edric "Ned" Storm doesn't exist).





Final outcome


So there you have it, when it truly comes down to it, the only hope we have for the Baratheon lineage is for one of Robert's bastards to pick up the mantle!





@ Pay attention to this, it will be important for us here.


# There are several families which we can follow, but none seem relevant at this point, these include:



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir

the lord of the rings - Why is Gimli allowed to travel to Valinor?

Gimli was allowed to go to Valinor despite not being a ring bearer. Is this explained in detail or just with the one line "for his love for Galadriel"? Answer There's not much detail about this aside from what's said in Appendix A to Return of the King: We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Glóin's son with him because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love, or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it. But it is said that Gimli went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him. More cannot be said of this matter. And Appendix B: Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf . And when that sh

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l

What is the etymology of Doctor Who?

I recently decided to watch Doctor Who, and started viewing the 2005 version. I have the first two episodes from the first season, and I can't help but wonder what is the etymology of the name "Doctor Who"? And why does the protagonist call himself "the Doctor" (or is it "the doctor")? Answer In the very first episode of Doctor Who (way back in 1963), the Doctor has a granddaughter going by the name "Susan Foreman", and the junkyard where the TARDIS is has the sign "I.M. Foreman". Barbara, who becomes one of the Doctor's companions, calls him "Doctor Foreman" (probably assuming that is his name given his relationship to Susan), and Ian (another early companion) does the same in the second episode, to which the Doctor says: Eh? Doctor who? What's he talking about? "Foreman" is most likely selected as a convenient surname for Susan to use because it happened to be on display near where the TARDIS landed.