Skip to main content

star wars - Did Sidious really kill Plagueis in his sleep?



Palpatine was talking to Anakin about Darth Plagueis in Revenge of the Sith:



Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep.



The whole scene can be seen here, with the quote above at 1:21.


We definitely know that the »apprentice« was Sidious himself, but did he really kill his master in his sleep?


This would be a major violation of the philosophy of Darth Bane's Rule of Two, which states that the apprentice must defeat the master in an open fight and that only the stronger one should survive to make the Sith stronger as a whole.


Also, lying to Anakin would make some sense, as it makes it seem easy to him to kill Sidious whenever he wants, which may reduce his resistance to joining the Dark Side.


I'm asking this question because the quote above is the only real information about Plagueis' death I could find. Did Sidious actually tell the truth?



Answer




Disney near-canon:


Pablo Hidalgo (LucasFilm's and then Disney's canon expert, high level employee and creative mind) conclusively confirmed the fact on his Twitter account. The only caveat is that - at least in early 2016 - his twitter account had an explicit note that the twitter feed is NOT to be considered a canonical source.


Pablo Hidalgo on Twitter just confirmed that Snoke isn't Plagueis (or rather, that Plagueis "truly, deeply" died.



Witka ‏@timvitkuske Apr 30
@pablohidalgo Can you confirm that Snoke is NOT Plagueis? Can you confirm that Plagueis is dead?


Pablo Hidalgo @pablohidalgo
@timvitkuske Plagueis was killed by his apprentice. He's dead.



And further in a later tweet:




Witka ‏@timvitkuske May 8
@pablohidalgo my real question to put it to rest, is did Plagueis' spirit survive physical death through the dark side? @colliderjedicouncil


Pablo Hidalgo @pablohidalgo
@timvitkuske he was said to possess the ability to keep loved ones from dying. Not himself. His apprentice killed him.



... and just to be absolutely sure:



Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo May 8 @Daniel_Outhier @Gary_Thursby @timvitkuske Sidious killed Plagueis. Ascending to master. As is the way of the Sith.


Marissa Talchi @MarissaTalchi

@pablohidalgo @Daniel_Outhier @Gary_Thursby @timvitkusk You didn't answer the Q. Is he actually dead or does Sidious think he's dead?


Pablo Hidalgo @pablohidalgo
@MarissaTalchi @Daniel_Outhier @Gary_Thursby I said Sidious killed Plagueis. He killed him. Killed. As in "to kill". Like, there was killing
4:10 PM - 8 May 2016



This info largely cloned from my earlier to Snoke/Plagueis question


Disney Pre-Episode VII canon:


We don't know. All we know is 100% contained in Sidious' words to Anakin, and as you wisely noted, there's nothing to stop him from telling the truth "from a certain point of view", to use Obi-Wan's terminology.


Matthew Stover's RotS novelization doesn't offer anything earth-shatteringly new over the film:




“Oh, well, it is a tragedy, after all, you know. Once he has gained this ultimate power, he has nothing to fear save losing it—that’s why the Jedi Council brought him to mind, you know.”
“But what happened?”
“Well, to safeguard his power’s existence, he teaches the path toward it to his apprentice.”
“And?”
“And his apprentice kills him in his sleep,” Palpatine said with a careless shrug. “Plageuis never sees it coming. That’s the tragic irony, you see: he can save anyone in the galaxy from death—except himself.”
“What about the apprentice? What happens to him?”
“Oh, him. He goes on to become the greatest Dark Lord the Sith have ever known …”
“So,” Anakin murmured, “it’s only a tragedy for Plagueis—for the apprentice, the legend has a happy ending …”



Typically, Wrede's Junior Novelization is even more condensed:




“Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew—and then the apprentice killed him in his sleep.” Palpatine smiled slightly. “It’s ironic that he could save others from death, but not himself.”



Disney Episode VII canon:


It's unknown at this time, but there are multiple hints which people interpreted as Supreme Leader Snoke being Plagieis.


NOTE: Even if that theory is true (personally, I regard it as unlikely as explained in my Snoke/Plagueis answer), it STILL doesn't prove that Sidious lied - it could be that he thought he killed Plagueis, and either Plagueis tricked him; and didn't die; OR that he "resurrected" himself via his mastery over the Force and Midichlorians that Sidious was telling Anakin about.


EU/Legends


"Plagueis" novel by Luceno explains Sidious' thought process: he basically already considered himself the Master, and Plagueis merely a useful pawn/teacher combination, not a genuine Master.



“I could save you, of course. Return you from the brink, as you did Venamis. I could retask your body to repair the damage already done to your lungs, your hearts, your aged brain. But I’ll do no such thing. The idea here is not to drag you back at the last moment, but to bring you to death’s door and shove you through to the other side.”

Sidious sighed. “A tragedy, really, for one so wise. One who could oversee the lives and deaths of all beings, except himself.”
The Muun’s eyes had begun to bulge; his pale flesh, to turn cyanotic.


“You may be wondering: when did he begin to change?
The truth is that I haven’t changed. As we have clouded the minds of the Jedi, I clouded yours. Never once did I have any intention of sharing power with you. I needed to learn from you; no more, no less. To learn all of your secrets, which I trusted you would eventually reveal. But what made you think that I would need you after that? Vanity, perhaps; your sense of self-importance. You’ve been nothing more than a pawn in a game played by a genuine Master.
“The Sith’ari.”
A cruel laugh escaped him.
“Reflect back on even the past few years—assuming you have the capacity. Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, Maul, the Neimoidians, Naboo, an army of clones, the fallen Jedi Dooku … You think these were your ideas, when in fact they were mine, cleverly suggested to you so that you could feed them back to me. You were far too trusting, Plagueis. No true Sith can ever really care about another. This has always been known. There is no way but my way.”
Sidious’s eyes narrowed. “Are you still with me, Plagueis? Yes, I detect that you are—though barely.



Moreover, we know that Sidious did not actually take the Rule of Two for a gospel: first, he himself had multiple simultaneous apprentices; second, he never ever intended to let an apprentice beat him



The latter is confirmed by WoG: "Plagueis"'s author James Luceno in an interview said:



Q: Is it safe to say that Sidious did not follow the Rule of Two?
A: Sidious doesn't follow rules of any sort.



Even more ironically, Plagueis himself didn't believe in the Rule of Two and intended to rule forever, as he told HIS master when he killed him:



Plagueis pried the Bith’s thin hand from the fabric and grinned faintly. “Yes, Master, your death comes at my bidding. You said yourself that perpetuation with purpose is the way to victory, and so it is. Go to your grave knowing that you are last of the old order, the vaunted Rule of Two, and that the new order begins now and will for a thousand years remain in my control.



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...

What is the etymology of Doctor Who?

I recently decided to watch Doctor Who, and started viewing the 2005 version. I have the first two episodes from the first season, and I can't help but wonder what is the etymology of the name "Doctor Who"? And why does the protagonist call himself "the Doctor" (or is it "the doctor")? Answer In the very first episode of Doctor Who (way back in 1963), the Doctor has a granddaughter going by the name "Susan Foreman", and the junkyard where the TARDIS is has the sign "I.M. Foreman". Barbara, who becomes one of the Doctor's companions, calls him "Doctor Foreman" (probably assuming that is his name given his relationship to Susan), and Ian (another early companion) does the same in the second episode, to which the Doctor says: Eh? Doctor who? What's he talking about? "Foreman" is most likely selected as a convenient surname for Susan to use because it happened to be on display near where the TARDIS landed....

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...