Skip to main content

the lord of the rings - How can a storm cloud in Middle-earth "move behind the sun"?


This is probably the most trivial question I've ever asked here, and relates to something mentioned in passing. The passage occurs in The Two Towers, Book IV, "The Taming of Smeagol". While attempting to climb down from a mountain, Frodo and Sam are caught in a fast-moving storm caused by Sauron. Tolkien writes:



With that [Frodo] stood up and went down to the bottom of the gully again. He looked out. Clear sky was growing in the East once more. The skirts of the storm were lifting, ragged and wet, and the main battle had passed to spread its great wings over the Emyn Muil; upon which the dark thought of Sauron brooded for a while. Thence it turned, smiting the Vale of Anduin with hail and lightning, and casting its shadow upon Minas Tirith with threat of war. Then, lowering in the mountains, and gathering its great spires, it rolled on slowly over Gondor and the skirts of Rohan, until far away the Riders on the plain saw its black towers moving behind the sun, as they rode into the West. But here, over the desert and the reeking marshes the deep blue sky of evening opened once more, and a few pallid stars appeared, like small white holes in the canopy above the crescent moon.



Here are the relative positions of the cloud, Frodo, the Riders, the setting sun, and Mordor, as I understand them (obviously not to scale, but that doesn't matter). Note that the cloud never moves anywhere near the Riders - it is always east of them, and the sun is always west of them.


enter image description here



Unless I don't understand weather in Middle-earth, this doesn't make any sense. How can a storm cloud "move behind the sun"? Every storm cloud I have ever seen has been decidedly closer to me than to the sun. Storm clouds are in front of the sun, never behind it. What is Tolkien trying to describe here?



Answer



My reading of that line requires you to imagine the perspective of the Rohirrim. They're in the west, watching a huge, unnatural storm front move in from the east.


Assuming that it's around mid-day (or at least not first thing in the morning), the sun will have risen into the sky (from the east). But the storm front, like a wall of cloud, is now moving in from the east, seemingly chasing it across the sky.


enter image description here


Notice how many words in that passage are about movement. That whole paragraph is about watching the storm move, how it moves, where it moves. And, most importantly in the sentence you bolded, how it moves relative to the riders. They are riding west, but the storm clouds are closing in on them.


Until the cloud overtakes and blocks out the sun, it is "behind" the sun.


So essentially, the section that reads:



...until far away the Riders on the plain saw its black towers moving behind the sun, as they rode into the West.




could be "translated" as:



...until far away the Riders on the plain saw the black clouds swiftly overtaking the sun, as they rode into the West.



A famous example


You know the famous scene in Independence Day (and plenty of other scifi stories) where the giant spaceship slowly moves its shadow across the city?


enter image description here


That's what is being described here. The cloud front is "behind" the sun, moving quickly across the sky, darkening everything in its path, until it finally overtakes the sun and the world (or the viewer at least) is plunged into darkness.


Update with your sketch



Using the sketch you added to your question, I made my own notations to illustrate my interpretation.


enter image description here


By this moment in time, the Sun has already risen in the east and moved west across most of the sky. The clouds also started in the east and are moving west, but having only recently started, they haven't moved as far across the sky yet.


From the perspective of the Riders, the clouds seem to be chasing the sun across the sky. And because they haven't gotten as far, they seem to be "behind the sun" in the sense of one racer being "behind" another.


The clouds are chasing the sun, they're overtaking the sun. When they reach it, blot it out, and keep going, they will have passed the sun, but until they reach it, they are behind the sun.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

languages - Do we ever see written English in the Star Wars films?

In Empire Strikes Back , we see a transcription of what R2's beeps and bloops mean, but it's not English (sorry for the low quality, it's from the 2004 DVDs): I'd assume it's what Basic looks like when written, but is there some point in the the Star Wars films we see written English instead? (This sort of spun off from a discussion in How do people understand astromech droids? .) Answer At one point there was English but it has been phased out in subsequent versions of the films. Chris Gould at DVD Active did a comparison of all versions of each of the Star Wars films, and in his comparison of Episode 4 , there are a couple of screenshots showing how the power gauge for the Death Star tractor beam was changed. I imagine there are probably more to be found in his other comparisons but I haven't got around to reading those yet.

Was the "pure soul" of Harry's what had really hurt Voldemort?

In the Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort possesses Harry, and it hurts. Greatly. I think that Dumbledore explained that it was because Voldemort's rotten soul was incapable of assimilating Harry's pure soul, that Voldemort didn't understand the love and friendship etc that Harry has in his heart. But, I think it was a lie. Remember that in Deathly Hallows, while looking for information regarding Horcruxes, it is discovered that it is in fact possible to merge a soul fragment back, but that the process was extremely painful. Now then, if Voldemort tried to possess Harry, and Harry had a fragment of Voldemort's soul, I think that it could have been the true cause of Voldemort's pain: the fact of having his soul so close of another fragment. I think that Dumbledore knew that fact, but had to lie to Harry because it was inappropriate to let him know that he had one of Voldemort's soul fragments at the moment. Is that right? Or was it truly the pure soul of Harry's...

star wars - What "exactly" happens when someone turns to the Dark Side?

When I saw the original Star Wars saga as a kid, the concept of the Dark Side imprinted in me was quite simple. You did a bad thing, so you're a bad person so you go to the Dark Side and keep doing bad things. Now, obviously this doesn't hold true in reality. In my mind it is perfectly reasonable for Luke to kill the Emperor and Vader and then just flee the Death Star and rejoin the Alliance. After all they are at war, those are enemy officers that have captured him and are taunting him by threatening with death of all loved ones and the whole operation was intended to kill the Emperor anyway. The same would hold true for Anakin. He could have killed Mace Windu to save the Chancellor and Padme but that doesn't mean he's going to then go mad and kill all Jedis including children. It doesn't add up from a merely psychological point of view. He had a set of objectives and that made him want to keep the Chancellor alive (quite valid by the way, Mace Windu is quite clums...

star trek - Warning regarding forward saucer section in Nemesis?

In Star Trek: Nemesis , just before the Enterprise rams into the Scimitar, Picard sends a text message from his captain's chair arm pad to Troi — who is manning the helm in lieu of the crewman who was just blown out through what was once the view screen — indicating that she should put full impulse on standby. (Literally, if you watch the scene closely, Troi's console prefaces the order with "TXT MSG" !) My question is: Did Picard also somehow warn crew members in the forward saucer section about what was about to happen? The ramming of the Scimitar was a heat of the moment decision. Considering that he also resorted to calling the auto-destruct sequence shortly after (which ended up being offline), he probably was of the mindset that any losses would be acceptable in order to hault Shinzon's march to Earth. Still, I'm curious. Answer The original script indicates that he called for the crew to " brace for impact ". Whether that call (or the comma...