Skip to main content

the lord of the rings - What exactly happened to Gandalf's spirit after he "died" fighting the Balrog?




In the Two Towers movie, when Aragorn and company meet the newly reincarnated Gandalf the White, he has the following conversation with them



GANDALF VOICEOVER: From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak...... I fought with the Balrog of Morgoth. Until at last I threw down my enemy......and smote his ruin upon the mountainside. Darkness took me......and I strayed out of thought and time.Stars wheeled overhead......and every day was as long as a life age of the Earth. But it was not the end. I felt life in me again. I've been sent back...... until my task is done.



Why is Gandalf speaking like he is one of the mortal men? As a Maia, Gandalf's spirit or ëala is his primary form and therefore, after the destruction of his physical body, the ëala should have survived on and returned to Aman from where he originally came. We see it described this way in the cases of both Sauron and Saruman except that they don't return to Aman. That is, when their bodies die, their spirits rise out of the mortal remains and are "blown" away.



To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing. -Scouring of the Shire, RoTK



But Gandalf here doesn't remember the details of what happened after he died because he has just been reincarnated again. But that goes against much of what Tolkien thought about the Maiar. For a Maia, their spirit or ëala exists independently within the world and the physical forms they assume are just like clothes put on and cast off at will. But here, why is Gandalf talking like he was expecting his physical death to be the permanent end - "It was not the end. I felt life in me again"?




Answer



Wizards are Different


The Wizards aren't entirely like other Maiar. While you're generally correct that the Valar and Maiar aren't tied to a specific physical body, and therefore suffer the destruction of their physical forms the way we Incarnates suffer a torn shirt1, the Istari are called out as having been put into "real" bodies; Gandalf isn't merely a Maiar spirit who's robed himself in a physical form, he's been incarnated:



For with the consent of Eru they [the Valar] sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years.


Unfinished Tales Part 4 Chapter II: "The Istari"




By 'incarnate' I mean [the Istari] were embodied in physical bodies capable of pain, and weariness, and of afflicting the spirit with physical fear, and of being 'killed', though supported by the angelic spirit they might endure long, and only show slowly the wearing of care and labour.


The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 156: To Robert Murray, SJ (Draft). 4 November 1954




I tend to look at the matter this way: there is a being called Gandalf, and a being called Olórin. While related, the two are not quite identical; among other differences, Gandalf is capable of being killed in a way Olórin isn't. Even though the death of Gandalf doesn't destroy Olórin, Olórin can't simply bring Gandalf back to life; that's against The Rules.


So what happened to Gandalf when he died?


We don't know; Gandalf himself is unwilling to discuss it further (though I would dispute your claim that he doesn't remember; he's quite cagey on the subject):



Then darkness took me; and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.


The Two Towers Book III Chapter 5: "The White Rider"



Some believe that Olórin left Eä altogether, and went to the Timeless Halls, though I disagree with that reading. Another possibility, and the one I favour, is that he returned to Valinor.


Unfortunately, Tolkien himself has no further insight to offer.





1 There are other complications to this highly generalized statement, but I'm not going into them here.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

languages - Do we ever see written English in the Star Wars films?

In Empire Strikes Back , we see a transcription of what R2's beeps and bloops mean, but it's not English (sorry for the low quality, it's from the 2004 DVDs): I'd assume it's what Basic looks like when written, but is there some point in the the Star Wars films we see written English instead? (This sort of spun off from a discussion in How do people understand astromech droids? .) Answer At one point there was English but it has been phased out in subsequent versions of the films. Chris Gould at DVD Active did a comparison of all versions of each of the Star Wars films, and in his comparison of Episode 4 , there are a couple of screenshots showing how the power gauge for the Death Star tractor beam was changed. I imagine there are probably more to be found in his other comparisons but I haven't got around to reading those yet.

Was the "pure soul" of Harry's what had really hurt Voldemort?

In the Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort possesses Harry, and it hurts. Greatly. I think that Dumbledore explained that it was because Voldemort's rotten soul was incapable of assimilating Harry's pure soul, that Voldemort didn't understand the love and friendship etc that Harry has in his heart. But, I think it was a lie. Remember that in Deathly Hallows, while looking for information regarding Horcruxes, it is discovered that it is in fact possible to merge a soul fragment back, but that the process was extremely painful. Now then, if Voldemort tried to possess Harry, and Harry had a fragment of Voldemort's soul, I think that it could have been the true cause of Voldemort's pain: the fact of having his soul so close of another fragment. I think that Dumbledore knew that fact, but had to lie to Harry because it was inappropriate to let him know that he had one of Voldemort's soul fragments at the moment. Is that right? Or was it truly the pure soul of Harry's...

star wars - What "exactly" happens when someone turns to the Dark Side?

When I saw the original Star Wars saga as a kid, the concept of the Dark Side imprinted in me was quite simple. You did a bad thing, so you're a bad person so you go to the Dark Side and keep doing bad things. Now, obviously this doesn't hold true in reality. In my mind it is perfectly reasonable for Luke to kill the Emperor and Vader and then just flee the Death Star and rejoin the Alliance. After all they are at war, those are enemy officers that have captured him and are taunting him by threatening with death of all loved ones and the whole operation was intended to kill the Emperor anyway. The same would hold true for Anakin. He could have killed Mace Windu to save the Chancellor and Padme but that doesn't mean he's going to then go mad and kill all Jedis including children. It doesn't add up from a merely psychological point of view. He had a set of objectives and that made him want to keep the Chancellor alive (quite valid by the way, Mace Windu is quite clums...

star trek - Warning regarding forward saucer section in Nemesis?

In Star Trek: Nemesis , just before the Enterprise rams into the Scimitar, Picard sends a text message from his captain's chair arm pad to Troi — who is manning the helm in lieu of the crewman who was just blown out through what was once the view screen — indicating that she should put full impulse on standby. (Literally, if you watch the scene closely, Troi's console prefaces the order with "TXT MSG" !) My question is: Did Picard also somehow warn crew members in the forward saucer section about what was about to happen? The ramming of the Scimitar was a heat of the moment decision. Considering that he also resorted to calling the auto-destruct sequence shortly after (which ended up being offline), he probably was of the mindset that any losses would be acceptable in order to hault Shinzon's march to Earth. Still, I'm curious. Answer The original script indicates that he called for the crew to " brace for impact ". Whether that call (or the comma...