Skip to main content

the lord of the rings - Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return?


In The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, when Gandalf is meeting with Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond in Rivendell, they are discussing the Necromancer. When Gandalf suggests that it is Sauron returning, Saruman insists that it's impossible and Sauron cannot and will not return.


The Istari (the wizards on Middle-earth) were sent back specifically to prevent the return of Sauron, so why would Saruman insist that it was impossible? Surely at least he'd investigate further to refute it.


I'm reasonably prepared to accept the answer "Jackson. 'Nuff said", although it'd be nice if there was another reason.


Edit: I found this related, but not duplicate quesion, as it doesn't address why he wouldn't check further



Answer



There's certainly an element of "Jackson, 'nuff said" in it - in the books the Wise (Eldar and Istari) had begun to suspect that the power in Dol Guldur was Sauron by TA2060 (approx. 900 years before the events of the Hobbit) and knew it for certain by TA2850 (approx. 100 years before the events of the Hobbit).


However, it is broadly accurate to Saruman's behaviour in the books, where it's documented that Saruman opposed any action against Dol Guldur. All of this is documented in the Lord of the Rings chapter the Council of Elrond:




Some, too, will remember also that Saruman dissuaded us from open deeds against him, and for long we watched him only.



And also that he had argued to the Council that Sauron's Ring would never be found again (and therefore Sauron could never be a potent force for evil again):



"At the worst," said he, "our Enemy knows that we have it not and that it still is lost. But what was lost may yet be found, he thinks. Fear not! His hope will cheat him. Have I not earnestly studied this matter? Into Anduin the Great it fell; and long ago, while Sauron slept, it was rolled down the River to the Sea. There let it lie until the End."



Eventually Saruman yielded and agreed to an assault on Dol Guldur, but it was only after discovering that Sauron's servants were also searching the Gladden Fields for the Ring. This is told in the Tale of Years for the Third Age:



2939: Saruman discovers that Sauron's servants are searching the Anduin near Gladden Fields, and that Sauron therefore has learned of Isildur's end. He is alarmed, but says nothing to the Council.




The assualt on Dol Guldur, and other events of the Hobbit, then took place in TA2941, two years after that.


Footnote 55 (on the entry or TA2851) to the Tale of Years finally makes Saruman's motive explicit:



It afterwards became clear that Saruman had then begun to desire to possess the One Ring himself, and he hoped that it might reveal itself, seeking its master, if Sauron were let be for a time.



So it's therefore clear that Saruman wanted to leave Sauron alone so that the Ring might reveal itself, but it was only after the danger of Sauron finding it first became real that he finally consented.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...