Skip to main content

tolkiens legendarium - Who was the oldest Elf left in Middle Earth at the start of the War of the Ring at the end of the third age?


Some of the remaining notable and named Elves' birthdates are either known, or through association can be reasonably guessed at. They are:




  • Galadriel - birthdate YT 1362,

  • Elrond - birthdate FA 532,

  • Glorfindel - birthdate unknown (sometime YT, killed FA 510 then re-embodied),

  • Celeborn - birthdate unknown (sometime YT?),

  • Haldir - birthdate unknown (late FA-early SA?),

  • Legolas - birthdate unknown (early TA?)


Within Tolkien's work, is there another Elf remaining in Middle Earth that is older than those noted?



Answer



Of the named Elves it's almost certainly Cirdan, who was on the Great Journey and possibly even dates back to Cuivienen.



Note 29 to the Cirdan essay in HoME 12 confirms the former:



Before ever they came to Beleriand the Teleri had developed a craft of boat-making; first as rafts, and soon as light boats with paddles made in imitation of the water-birds upon the lakes near their first homes, and later on the Great Journey in crossing rivers, or especially during their long tarrying on the shores of the 'Sea of Rhun', where their ships became larger and stronger. But in all this work Cirdan had ever been the foremost and most inventive and skilful.



There are several possibilities for Elves that are even older than him, however. We know (from Quendi and Eldar, published in HoME 11) that of the First Kindred all became Eldar (i.e the Vanyar) and none became Avari. Of the Second Kindred the split was 50/50, with the half that became Eldar being the Noldor. The other half of the Second Kindred remained in Middle-earth. Of the Third Kindred about two-thirds became Eldar with the rest remaining as Avari.


From there occasional groups dropped off in the course of the Great Journey (most notably at the Misty Mountains) and about another third of the Third Kindred remained as Sindar.


Aside from the First Kindred (who all went to Valinor) it's never said what happened to the original Elves that awoke of the Second and Thirds. We know that Finwe and Elwe were not among the original 144, but what we don't know is how many of those remained as Avari. If we assume that at least some did, and if they're still alive, then they would be the oldest Elves in Middle-earth.


Edit to Add: Some dates from the Annals of Aman (HoME 10), all given in YT (Years of the Trees; 1 YT = approx 10 Years of the Sun):



  • 1050: The Awakening of the Elves.


  • 1085: Orome finds the Elves.

  • 1090: The Battle of the Powers begins.

  • 1099: The Chaining of Melkor.

  • 1102: Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe as Ambassadors to Valinor.

  • 1105: The Great Journey begins and the First Sundering.

  • 1115: The Great Journey at Mirkwood/Greenwood, Anduin and the Misty Mountains.

  • 1125: The Vanyar and Noldor reach Beleriand.

  • 1128: The Teleri reach Beleriand.

  • 1130: Elwe is lost.

  • 1133: The Vanyar and Noldor reach Valinor.


  • 1149: Cirdan is lord at Brithombar and Eglarest.

  • 1151: The Teleri reach Tol Eressea.

  • 1179: Birth of Feanor.

  • 1190: Birth of Fingolfin.

  • 1362: Birth of Galadriel.




Update - 13th March 2015


Next oldest after Círdan is almost certainly Daeron. He was the Loremaster and Minstrel of Thingol, and the Annals of Aman state that he invented his runes in VY 1300. That means that he was born sometime earlier, obviously, but we don't know how much earlier.


Now, in Of Beren and Lúthien we read:




But seeking for Lúthien in despair he wandered upon strange paths, and passing over the mountains he came into the East of Middle-earth, where for many ages he made lament beside dark waters for Lúthien, daughter of Thingol, most beautiful of all living things.



This establishes a good probability that Daeron is still alive in the east of Middle-earth at the time of Lord of the Rings.


Maglor, of course, is probably also still alive (and notably the last of the Fëanorians), but we don't have a birth-date for him.


Comments

Popular posts from this blog

harry potter - Did Dolores Umbridge Have Any Association with Voldemort (or Death Eaters) before His Return?

I noticed that Dolores Umbridge was born during the first Wizarding War, so it's very likely she wasn't a Death Eater then (but she is pretty evil -- who knows?). After that Voldemort was not around in a way that could affect many people, and most wouldn't know he was planning to rise again. During that time, and up through Voldemort's return (in Goblet of Fire ), did Umbridge have any connection with the Death Eaters or with Voldemort? Was she doing what she did on her own, or was it because of an association with Voldemort or his allies? Answer Dolores Umbridge was definitely not a good person. However, as Sirius points out, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". Remember that he also says that he doesn't believe Umbridge to be a Death Eater, but that she's evil enough (or something like that). I think there are two strong reasons to believe that: Umbridge was proud to do everything according to the law, except when she trie...

futurama - How much time is lost in 'Time Keeps on Slippin''

In time Keeps on Slippin' , Farnsworth creates a basketball team which he matures by abusing Chronitons. This leads to time skipping forward by random, but ever increasing amounts. How much time was skipped in this way? Answer Unfortunately, I don't think a good estimate can be made for this, for two reasons: Many of the time skips move forward by an indeterminate amount of time. At one point, the Professor mentions localized regions of space skipping forward much more than others. We then see two young boys on the street below complaining about having to pay social security, only to suddenly become senior citizens and start complaining about wanting their money. Thus, each individual could have experienced a different amount of time skippage.

aliens - Interstellar Zoo story

I vaguely remember this story from my childhood: it was about an interstellar zoo that came to Earth with lots of bizarre and unusual species, and humans would file through and gape at all the crazy looking creatures from other planets. The twist came at the end when the perspective shifted to the other side of the bars and we discovered that the "creatures" were traveling through space on a kind of safari. They thought they were the visitors and we were the animals. Neither side knew that the other side thought they were the zoo creatures. Answer Got it. Zoo, by Edward D. Hoch. Published in 1958. Link to Publication History Link to PDF

harry potter - What is the difference between Diffindo and Sectumsempra?

In the Harry Potter books, Diffindo is called the 'Severing Charm' and it’s most commonly used to cut ropes and the like. However, in the last book Hermione uses it on Ron but misses, creating a 'slash in his jeans' and his knee gets cut, causing him to 'roar in pain'. We've only seen Sectumsempra used once on screen when Harry directly uses it on Malfoy in the sixth book, but there it's mentioned that he is 'waving his wand wildly'. Wouldn't Diffindo, if used in such a fashion also cause a similar effect? Similarly, if it was able to cut Ron, it would also be able to, say, chop off an ear (George's)? In that case, how are these two spells different, except for Sectumsempra seemingly used exclusively to hurt humans? Answer While Diffindo and Sectumsempra both can be countered by other spells, Diffindo is far more easily countered. Reparo, a relatively common spell, can completely reverse its effect when used once. “He pulled the old cop...