Skip to main content

a song of ice and fire - Tourney Rules in Westeros: Choosing Queen of Love and beauty


This has been irking me for a while now. There is a brief over-view of tourney rules gathered from A song of ice and fire, The Princess and the Queen, The Dunk & Egg series. I know there are following formats of Tourneys in Westeros by my research:




Melee


Basically last man standing! A group of knights beat each other bloody with blunted swords, axes and other weapons. Alliances are formed, broken, reformed. The last man standing wins. (There is archery as well but lets just skip that)


Jousting


Here knights have a go at each other with wooden lances. The one who falls or gets disqualified for cheating or concedes defeat, loses.The loser forfeits his horse and armor to victor and must either give it up or ransom it back. There are two main types of Jousting.




  1. Knights are paired against each other and gradually move on like a Football tournament. Victor of the final tilt wins the champion's laurel. Example would be Robert Baratheon's Tourney of the hand at King's landing.





  2. Knights fight to defend the honor of a named "Queen of love and beauty". A certain number are declared as Champions while others must challenge them. If Champions win, they retain their place. If Challengers win, they take the fallen champion's position as a champion. At the end the Champion decides to either keep the reigning Queen of love and beauty or choose a new one. Examples would be tourney of Harrenhal and Ashford.





My questions is:


In jousting format number 2, how do Champions decide who should be Queen of Crown and beauty? With five original champions of course choice would be simple as the nominated girl (original queen) would most likely be their sister, niece or cousin. But what happens when different Challengers become champions? Do the Champions then tilt amongst themselves to choose one final champion?


Rephrasing the above question with an example, In Jousting format 2, How can one champion decide who is to be QOLAB? Rhaegar single handedly decided that Lyanna shall be QOLAB at Harrenhal. How did he manage to convince other champions? Or did he have to defeat them too?


I know it appears too broad but I have tried to limit the scope by providing as much help with answers as I could.


This question has been split up into two to narrow down the scope as per community suggestions. Please follow this link to view the second part of the question.



Answer




Self answering after waiting for two months, From Tourney of Harrenhal, It appears that a Champion has to defeat his co-champions in order to win the right to crown the Queen of Love and beauty.


Total Number of Champions


From Tourney at Ashford Meadow and Tourney at Harrenhal we can establish that there are five champions who defend the honor of the QoLaB.


At Tourney of Ashford Meadow following five were the original Champions:



  1. Ser Androw Ashford

  2. Ser Robert Ashford

  3. Lord Leo "Longthorn" Tyrell

  4. Ser Humfrey Hardyng

  5. Prince Valarr Targaryen



At Tourney of Harrenhal, following five were the original champions:



  1. Four unnamed sons of Lord Walter Whent

  2. Ser Oswell Whent, A knight of the Kingsguard and brother to Lord of Harrenhal, Walter Whent.


So it is established that total number of champions is five.



The right of crowning the Queen of Love and Beauty


We will use Tourney at Harrenhal to prove the hypothesis here.



Of the existing five Champions, Four were sons of Lord Walter Whent and one was his brother and a Knight of Kingsguard.


Over the course of jousting, Four sons of Lord Walter were defeated by unnamed challengers. Which means, those four victors now took place of Lord Walter's sons as Champions.


According to World of Ice and fire Chapter, "The Year of False Spring", it is stated that Rhaegar defeated four kingsguard. Three of the KG who are known to be participants in the tourney are:



  1. Ser Arthur Dayne

  2. Ser Barristan Selmy

  3. Ser Oswell Whent


The fourth one may have been either one of Prince Lewyn Martell, Ser Jonothor Darry and Lord Commander, Ser Georld Hightower. Jaime couldn't have been there because he was ordered to go back to Red Keep.


From TWOIAF Chapter "The Year of False Spring":




Prince Rhaegar emerged as the ultimate victor at the end of the competition. The crown prince, who did not normally compete in tourneys, surprised all by donning his armor and defeating every foe he faced, including four knights of the Kingsguard. In the final tilt, he unhorsed Ser Barristan Selmy, generally regarded as the finest lance in all the Seven Kingdoms, to win the champion’s laurels.



There are five Champions in total.


Rhaegar defeated four KG and many others. It is logical that some of those may have been Champions at the end. Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar were both champions simultaneously, that much is for sure.


In any case, the transcript refers to final tilt between Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar Targaryen. If this was the final tilt, it means the champions at the end had tilts among themselves, from which Rhaegar and Barristan emerged as the best. In the final title Barristan Selmy lost and Rhaegar Won the Champion's laurels and right to crown the QoLaB.


It is however not clear when do Champions start jousting among themselves. Most logical assumption here would be that they start doing that once all the Challengers have had their day in the field and no one else is left to challenge the final five champions.


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Did the gatekeeper and the keymaster get intimate in Ghostbusters?

According to TVTropes ( usual warning, don't follow the link or you'll waste half your life in a twisty maze of content ): In Ghostbusters, it's strongly implied that Dana Barret, while possessed by Zuul the Gatekeeper, had sex with Louis Tully, who was possessed by Vinz Clortho the Keymaster (key, gate, get it?), in order to free Big Bad Gozer. In fact, a deleted scene from the movie has Venkman explicitly asking Dana if she and Louis "did it". I turned the quote into a spoiler since it contains really poor-taste joke, but the gist of it is that it's implied that as part of freeing Gozer , the two characters possessed by the Keymaster and the Gatekeeper had sex. Is there any canon confirmation or denial of this theory (canon meaning something from creators' interviews, DVD commentary, script, delete scenes etc...)? Answer The Richard Mueller novelisation and both versions of the script strongly suggest that they didn't have sex (or at the very l...
1 comment
Read more

Why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize Missy right away?

So after it was established that Missy is actually both the Master, and the "woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS number... ...why didn't The Doctor or Clara recognize her right away? I remember the Tenth Doctor in The Sound of Drums stating that Timelords had a way of recognizing other Timelords no matter if they had regenerated. And Clara should have recognized her as well... I'm hoping for a better explanation than "Moffat screwed up", and that I actually missed something after two watchthroughs of the episode. Answer There seems to be a lot of in-canon uncertainty as to the extent to which Time Lords can recognise one another which far pre-dates Moffat's tenure. From the Time Lords page on Wikipedia : Whether or not Time Lords can recognise each other across regenerations is not made entirely clear: In The War Games, the War Chief recognises the Second Doctor despite his regeneration and it is implied that the Doctor knows him when they fir...
Post a Comment
Read more

story identification - Animation: floating island, flying pests

At least 20 years ago I watched a short animated film which stuck in my mind. The whole thing was wordless, possibly European, and I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it... It featured a flying island which was inhabited by some creatures who (in my memory) reminded me of the Moomins. The island was frequently bothered by large winged animals who swooped around, although I don't think they did any actual damage. At the end one of the moomin creatures suddenly gets a weird feeling, feels forced to climb to the top of the island and then plunges down a shaft right through the centre - only to emerge at the bottom as one of the flyers. Answer Skywhales from 1983. The story begins with a man warning the tribe of approaching skywhales. The drummers then warn everybody of the hunt as everyone get prepared to set "sail". Except one man is found in his home sleeping as the noise wake him up. He then gets ready and is about to take his weapon as he hesitates then decides ...
Post a Comment
Read more

warhammer40k - What evidence supposedly supports Tau as related to the Necrontyr?

I've heard of rumours saying that the Tau from Warhammer 40K are in fact the Necrontyr. Is there anything that supports this statement, in WH40K canon? I just found this, on 1d4 chan 1 : Helping Necrons? Or are they Necrontyr descendants? An often overlooked issue is that Tau have no warp signatures, just like Necrons, hate Warpspawns and Warp in general, just like Necrons, have the exact same skull shape,stature and short lives, and the overwhelming need for Technology and beam weapons, JUST LIKE NECRONS. GW may have planned a race that simply prepares a pacified, multiracial galaxy for Necrons to feast upon, supported by Ethereals that have a C'tan phase blade. Then there is a reference of "dark seed in east" by the Deceiver, so the tricky C'tan might give Tzeentch the finger in the JUST AS PLANNED competition. Or maybe GW just has so little creativity that they simply made a new civ conforming to an Old One's standards without knowing it. Is this the connec...
Post a Comment
Read more